Jo - Intro:
📍 Hi everyone, I am Jo Dukkipati and I am the founding editor of Good Day Cork. Good Day Cork is a multimedia house and an event space. The media content and the events created by Good Day Cork are designed with the A single most objective, which is change the narrative to build a kinder world. We were recording Raphael Olympio and Michael Wall for a podcast in 2023.
As they warmed up for the podcast, they got straight into a conversation on identity bias and racism. Like one would. This conversation didn't make it into the final podcast because I thought it is better to release it as a small snack for you. A healthy snack just for you.
Why?
Why did I think so?
Well, because it's a great example to show you the power of a meaningful deep, juicy conversation around tough themes. Themes that people might shy away from, especially if there's strangers meeting for the first time.
So without any further delay, I present to you Tough Chats, Gentle Words.
Raphael:
My name's Raphael, uh, Raphael Olympio. I go by the artist's name, Olympio. Um, I am a rapper, uh, as spoken word artist, and I also work as a youth mentor with the Cork migrant center doing, I guess, workshops, creative workshops, and, uh, anti racist work.
Uh, so that's, that's kind of me in a nutshell.
There's, there's more, I guess, a lot more, but, uh, that's where I'd start.
Michael:
It must be, I mean, it must be a full time job. Uh, we were, we were just kind of chatting about it. Before that about the, the, the little kind of idiosyncrasies that suddenly go from, you know, is it, is this my friendly neighborhood rapper or is this, is this the guy that's putting his hoodie up?
You know, it's starting to rain or, you know, what happens? People's, um, what happens? People's kind of, um, uh, opinions of somebody when, when you kind of. Not put yourself into a stereotype or turn yourself into a stereotype, but do something that people imagine is, uh, or is something that they've seen. Does it, does that, is it like, is it daily?
Raphael:
It is. It's, it's a daily fight as I like to put it, uh, with myself, I guess, uh, as opposed to other people because, okay, we live in Ireland, Cork city, which is a beautiful city, in my opinion. I've grown up there for, over 23 years and the amount of racism, I guess has impacted me or I've received is very miniscule in the grand scheme of things.
Raphael:
Um, but it's just those little impacts just kind of make me overthink cause I'm quite like, uh, I'm a thinker. I think a lot, I'm kind of reserved, quiet. Um, and I think, you know, I've grown up in direct provision as well. So it was quite isolated and grew up with a bit of anxiety. I'm getting much better now.
Raphael:
Um, but it's just those little impacts just make me overthink everything. And I'm like, I don't want to be associated with all the negative kind of associations with like black people or negative stereotypes or anything that is negative as affiliated with it. So I'm almost trying to always be the perfect kind of citizen, be the perfect candidate when I shouldn't have to be, I should just be 'feel free'.
Like, like we're saying, like putting up a hoodie if I'm cold, if it's raining, I shouldn't overthink that. Um, but it's just these little things and those are the impacts of racism. And, uh, I guess that's why we do the work we're doing.
So I'm unlearning to not like be too hard on myself, but also trying to, I guess, educate the wider audience that this is the impact of racism.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's funny because it was just that. It was just that. We did it, the pair of us right across from each other. I'm wearing the hoodie as well. As you did it, as you just pulled the hoodie up, I did the exact same thing. And I never thought about that. That could, it could cause somebody concern.
Michael:
And it's, it's one of those things, look, if somebody walks into a post office with a, with a, with a helmet on them or a motorcyclist walking, they're asked to remove the helmet. Um, it might be a secure thing. I don't know. Look, whatever it is. Yeah. But all these little things that, that you notice more so than, than I would notice, obviously, as you said, it's, it's something that you, you, you've grown up with.
Michael:
Does it, does it put you on guard? Like it must put you on guard.
Raphael:
It does. It does. Um, it's getting better though. Uh, I guess sometimes maybe I speak more about it than actually act on it, if that makes sense. And I think it's just, I don't know, it's just anxiety mixed with like the little traumas. And I was reading something earlier, we'll say earlier, earlier today, actually this morning.
Raphael:
And it was about, it was on the opposite kind of spectrum where a white person was attacked by a group of black guys. And because of that attack, he asked, "Is it racist for me to kind of have this fear of black people now? Are black people approaching me or being around black people because of the attack? "
Um, in a predominantly kind of white area. So he was posing that question to people. It was a podcast and he was like asking, am I racist for thinking this way? And then people responded that yes and no. And it's a thing where it's almost like it takes time to get over the actual, I guess, trauma and incident that occurred.
Raphael:
But if it's like after some time has passed, if you're still thinking. Uh, I'm afraid of black people because of what has happened, then it's racism, but if it's just like, I've been attacked, it just happened yesterday and I'm aware of black people around me because a bunch of black people attacked me, then it's kind of understandable.
Raphael:
It's just like your instinct, you're protecting yourself.
Michael:
There's a flight, there's a kind of a flight or flight thing built in.
Raphael:
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's that kind of a thing on the opposite side of the spectrum where I'm like, I can't be too hard on myself. And if somebody said something, I can't like project on whether audience, but yeah, this is probably a conversation for another.
Michael:
It's the hard thing. Like, you know, is it, is it a, is it a learned behaviour? Is it an environmental thing? If you grew up with, um, you had somebody telling you or putting it to you that if you walk out and there happens to be five or six black people and five or six white people, um, the likelihood is that, you know, if you, you know, if I was attacked by a group of five, of five, um, white people.
And I taught my son or daughter in growing up, be aware of a group of five people or be aware of a group of people that happen to wear football jerseys or be aware of people that happen to wear hoodies or whatever it is. And you're on guard. It's, it's in society. It's in people's cultures growing up.
Were you kind of almost geared up to feel or geared up to be aware that there was that there was going to be prejudice in Cork?
Raphael:
Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah and no because Yeah, because I feel like almost the small negative impacts just they just stick for some reason. Yeah, of course, but then no because I guess the majority of my experience in Cork has been positive.
Raphael:
Okay. Um, so that's what kind of keeps me going and keeps me, uh, in Cork and keeps me, I guess, enjoying the people of Cork.
Outsider YP- Outro:
You were listening to Good Day Cork, a conversation by Michael and Raphael. This podcast was recorded, edited and mixed by me, OutsiderYP. Thank you for listening.